Hate your coparent? Don't tell your kids!

so today we're going to talk about one of my pet peeves in family law. And we know I have a few, but this one is probably one of my top three, which is when parents speak poorly about the other parent and or the other parent's family. I was scrolling through Facebook, and I don't post, I'm just a voyeur, I guess, and there was a clip of a celebrity speaking about their Ex celebrity spouse, poorly in front of the kid and the kids say, I don't know, three, four, I don't know, young and sitting there and kind of looks like they're not paying attention, but they are. The kids are always paying attention and even if they don't understand everything, they're gonna understand their dad's name or their mom's name. They're gonna understand the tone. They're gonna hear some buzzwords. And so that's something that I think is really important for your attorney to give you guidance on. So, One of the biggest things I hear, I hear narcissism all the time. With regards to divorce and custody, but I also hear alienation all the time. So to alienate somebody is, is what it sounds like, is to try to divide them from somebody else, right? And it's more complex than that and, and there are experts that can be appointed to determine whether or not alienation is happening, and if so, how to fix it. But on a practical level, because I'm sure as hell not an alienation expert, I'm not Dr. Claywar, who is in this area, who is amazing but I am a person who lived through divorce, heard a parent speak poorly about the other all the time, probably somewhat rightfully so, but that didn't matter, but also somebody who now practices and sees how other parents talking about their kids affects them. And then even more significantly, as my kids get older. And they're talking to me about their friends and their divorced parents and the things they say. And it's interesting to hear my kids perspective. So I just see it everywhere. So stop doing it. When you're talking negatively about the other parent, You are, therefore, saying something negative about your child. Your child knows that they are half you and half the other person. And if you say, your mother, father, whoever, is it, asked, oh, they're always late, they're, you know, it's the tone. Like, it's, it's talking about them in some way as well. Well, does that mean my mom's not going to like me if I'm like my dad? Because guess what? Your kid's going to be like your dad, the dad, or the mom in some way. So if you're like, oh, your mother, or oh, God, your father, whatever, I mean, it's That is an indication that there is something wrong with them, too. And that's just the kind of stuff that's more tone as opposed to direct. I'll just speak to my own personal experience. My mother would constantly say, Your father's a piece of shit, your father's an alcoholic, your father's a drunk, your father's this and that would threaten me sometimes and say, you know, if you keep this up, you're going to your father's. And of course, I didn't want to go there. And there's a lot more under the surface of this issue. But ultimately, I can tell you that it did affect me in some ways to be like, well, does that mean there's something wrong with me? You know, if she doesn't like him, does that mean that she's not going to like me if I have certain similarities? And when you do that to your kids, you're only hurting your kids. And people do this, I feel like more and more and more and you're putting your kids in the middle and it is absolutely positively terrible. Any therapist you're going to talk to is going to tell you to not do that. You are fucking up your kids. Stop. Tiffany told me one time when she was a hearing officer that she had a kid come in. And speak with her who is almost an adult, so upper teens, and this poor kid, and I will say I see it harder on only children because they have the weight of both parents on them. In this case, it was an only child, and I don't know the issues, doesn't matter, but . When she talked to that kid, the kid expressed how hard this was and how much the conflict and the poor talking about the other parent was putting them in a situation that he was, thinking of ending his life. And Tiffany went out and said, if anything happens, it's your fault. Both of you. And good for her. You know, I love a person or hearing officer or judge who has the cojones to call it like they see it. But it is that extreme. You could be putting your kids to the point where they don't want to hear this anymore. And they just. want it to be over. And unfortunately, there have been kids that have at least said that they're going to end their life just to stop it. Do you want that on your shoulders? No. You are really putting your kid in the middle and that's not okay to them. In a perfect world, and I know it's not a perfect world, your kids would not know anything but their location is changing. They should know that both parents love them. Both parents support them. Both parents are going to go to the soccer games and stand next to each other. So your kid's not looking at two different ends of the field. They're going to know that their parents can at least be cordial. You don't need to be best friends. You don't need to have the same birthday parties, although that would be great for the kids. But Hey, how are you? Good to see you. That's it. I, one of the kids on my daughter's lacrosse team, they're divorced, and I see them sit together, and they're, I hear them talk, and it's just very much, surfacy, but they have put their issues to the side for the benefit of that kid, and I applaud them for it. So, it is something that I see all the time, and , I know it's really bad for these kids. I know something that comes up especially as the kids become teenagers is the kids picking which parent they want to be with., in Pennsylvania, there's no set age, okay? So one of the factors the court has to consider in a custody matter is the preference of the child, but that is based on their child's age and maturity. So I tell people all the time. If a mature 10 year old walks in, their preference might be factored. It's not like a black and white. It's not like they say that mom or dad, that's what happens. It's a factor. Think of it as the scales of justice. It's the weight. The judge has to weigh certain pieces of evidence and that's just one of them. So a mature 10 year old might be listened to more than an immature 16 year old. So your kid's preference. is a factor. However, if the judge or the hearing officer speaks to your child, they're not gonna say, who do you want to live with? Right? They're gonna ask questions around it. What do you do at mom's? What do you do at dad's? You know, does mom ever talk about dad? What does she say? Does dad ever talk about whatever it is? And they're gonna kind of fish around and find out. And it's, clear more often than not when kids have been put in the middle. And there have been cases where a parent has alienated, and I'm using that term even though I'm not an expert, so significantly, that an expert has said, That the other parent should get primary physical custody because they have done such extreme damage to that relationship that the only way to repair it is to flip it and give the other parent custody. So in the very extreme situations, if, if you're trying to get the kid on your side and there are no sides, okay, there's no sides. Let's be clear. Then it could end up completely biting you in the ass. Now that is exceptionally extreme. I know of one case that happened in Bucks County, and I have one case where that was recommended because of the extreme alienation. And everybody knows when it's the other parent who's doing it. But at the end of the day, you know, what the court's going to do is going to be dependent. But what I think for people as clients, your attorney should be telling you to stop. Stop talking poorly about the other parent. You can bitch to me. You can bitch to your friends. Don't do it on social media. If your kids are on Facebook or Instagram parents who post like, even if it's not direct, like, I hate my husband. It's, you know, truth always comes out. We always know. And it's referenced, like, they know, they know, it's all, your kids know. Really? Stop putting your shit on social media. Like, seriously. So don't do that. And the one that I wanted to bring up that I, I always go back to when people Do this is, there was a time, and it was early when I was practicing family law, so I had Kane's earlier than I realized. This client came in. She had three kids and I, I was actually at the point where I was like, she's gonna kill him. Like it was that bad and she just couldn't say anything nice about this guy. And I was sitting in a conference room and I looked at her and I said, you're not leaving. Until you tell me something nice about him and she looked at me like I had seven heads and I was like, I'm serious Tell me one thing nice about him and she like I said looked at me and finally she said he's good at art And I was like, you know what when you go home and your kids drawing and you say to them that's really good Johnny your dad was really good at art, too You must get that from him that is going to help heal your kids more than you will ever know so You've got to think about your kids first. You say you do. I do believe people think that they are, but your emotions get so intertwined with your hatred or your frustration with the other spouse that it affects the kids. So don't talk about your spouse negatively. Just don't do it. You're also creating a situation where your child is going to use you two against each other. So it's like at my house, intact household, my kids still try, Oh, dad said I could do this. And I'm like, did you really say that? And, and he's like no. very sneaky. Yeah, and look, that's good. You want them to be resourceful and try to get And as they get older, they get sneakier. sneakier. And that's in an intact, happy household where, you know, barring the days like yesterday when I didn't get home till late and the kids were everywhere, so we passed in the night, like, we're happy, we talk. So, we're not gonna be fooled. But when you are not in an intact household and you guys don't talk, they're going to pick you guys against each other. And then, guess who's winning? The kids. Meaning, like, the manipulation. So what are you teaching them? Right? Even if you are no longer married or together or an intact household, even if you are never an intact household, you are still family. You're still family and you are that child's family and that is the foundation in which their life is built. And so if you want to continue to,, talk poorly and pit each other against the child, et cetera, like you're only hurting your kid. You're not winning. And your kids, they'll know, as much as what my mom did was not okay., my biological father definitely was not the greatest, but I was able to figure that out. I recognize that, she has her faults for sure, but she, did her best with what she could. And I was going to figure that out no matter what she said. It's like anything, your kids are going to figure it out. They're not dumb. He would have burned his bridges on his own, without your mom having to tell you that he was going to do that., it definitely had an effect on my self esteem and my self worth because if I'm half him, because I am. Right, wrong or indifferent, even though, you know, I really don't look like him. And for the most part, I'm more like my adoptive dad than I am my, my biological dad, he's still half of my genes. And when I look at my kids, they have, a quarter of his genes. So like, it's important genes, unfortunately, are something that we're stuck with, you know, and there are certain characteristics that come about, this nature versus nurture. Don't talk negatively about it. It's just going to draw attention to things that are going to hurt your child, not help them. And to your point, when you were having the person think of one positive thing, you had a child with this person so you must have like something about them, right? I mean maybe sometimes it's like totally like random, didn't hardly know them, okay? So that's like a little bit of an exception to the rule. But if you were married or had a long term relationship and decided to have a child with them, There must have been something that you liked, right? There must have been something that you and I've said to be like, you know, I don't want him or her. And I'm like, hey, I'm not a magician. You picked him. They're still the mother or father. And I've heard judges after protracted hearings or trials say exactly that. At some point, you two liked each other. At some point, there was something that you two thought was good enough to be together and create a life. You can hate the person if you want, but you've got to put your feelings to the side for the benefit of your kids. And the more you can do that, the better your kids are going to be, and the more they're going to acclimate to life. Because life is hard enough without having to manage the parents. Oh, another thing. This is my other sub pet peeve. Because this just came up in a couple cases. Which is the triangulation. Having the kid be in charge of calling the other parent, or picking up the phone, or picking up the kid, the communication shouldn't be through the child. It doesn't matter if they're of age to answer the phone, have a phone, text, they're still a child. It's not appropriate. So the, the two examples that come to mind are it was actually a friend, and we were talking and she was talking about phone calls, and she's like, well, she can answer the phone. She can call him and I'm like, she's 11. I don't care that she's old enough. You say to her. It's time to call your dad and you get the dad on the phone and you have her come over and if she doesn't want To talk she can say hey dad. I've had a long day Everything's great. Talk to you soon, but it's not on her and same for making plans I and I get yep The kids have cell phones and you can text them But you should really help your kids because that's facilitating the relationship between them that is showing them that you As that parent wants to help that relationship. Somebody recently reached out to my kid and said, Well, I'd like to see you.. And I was like, Come through me. Don't do that to her. It's my mom. Let's just be honest. She reached out to her , and then, because she had my mom wasn't talking to me in three months, whole other drama. She reached out to my daughter and said, I'd like to see you, can we plan a sleepover? She's gonna be 14 in a week, or two weeks. She shouldn't be in the middle of that. has to be like, why is she asking me and Right, and that's, it's the triangulation, and I was like, you know, I'll deal with that. But, you know, it can happen not just in... You know, every family has their dysfunction. I'm happy to share my own. Well, at least you know how to advise her through that. You see the warning signs. And I did say to her, that's not appropriate. It should go through parents. It's not something you should have to deal with. And of course you can see grandma and grandpa, that's something they need to coordinate through Right, right. Don't talk about specifics. Your dad cheated and, oh, one of the other things. They're gonna know who was at fault. Oh, my God. They don't need to know. They don't need to know. They're gonna know they cheated. They're gonna know this. They're gonna know that. No. And maybe when they're adults they will, but then they're adults and they've, , conformed their own opinions, like you said. That's different than being 10 years old and hearing that My daughters talk to me a lot about people that they, from school and the things that they're doing. I generally know if there's an issue. going on in that family. Even if I don't know, I know because of the behavior of the kids, they want attention, they're struggling, they're flailing, it's not gonna make sense on how they're gonna act out, whether it's spreading rumors to get attention about other people, whether it's trying to act older than they are for different reasons, they're gonna act out. Being a kid is hard enough. Let's give them less to have to struggle with. Get out of your own way, get out of your kid's own way, do your best to give them a solid foundation together, as a family, as best as you can. And just suck it the fuck up because your kids are going to be better off. And I'm not saying it's easy, sure as hell isn't easy, but it's something that is important for every person to think about before they start talking negatively. And if you say something negative, move on and say, Hey, I'm sorry, I shouldn't have said that. I'm frustrated. This has nothing to do with you. on. So, and that's something I've learned personally is like the best thing you can do is tell your kids when you fuck up. And I've said, look, I'm just learning. I'm figuring life out. So are you. So I'm sorry. And that's it. So stop getting in your kid's way. And there's lots of technology now, I'm sure, that can help with this communication and shared Oh, our family wizard. And sure that your attorney can help you if you really can't talk and you really can't , have those conversations. There's ways to do it where you don't even have to coordinate together. our family wizard is the most commonly appointed or, ordered in that you can communicate. They have a tone meter that can say, like, your Your tone is not good? Oh, yeah, I love the tone meter. People think that I read it. I don't read your Our Family Wizard unless you tell me to, but it has a shared calendar. You can upload expenses. There's other ones that are ones called app close, talking parents.. So if you're finding yourself in that position, find a tool that's going to help you.. That's what court orders Time and parameters in which to be the better parents that you can be. So if you need Our Family Wizard, okay. And it's not necessarily forever, but it's a tool to get you through it. So yeah, good point. So, yay technology. Sometimes. Sometimes. Anyway. Alright, well then, you have to go. It's 1130 and we'll talk soon. All right, bye. you. Bye.