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emily: This is gonna be part one of a three part series that we'll call Judge Julie,

julie: Maybe Wanda, we're manifesting judge Julie, the TV show. I've put together a completely fictional case, but it's based on patterns that we've talked about in a lot of our episodes. So we have a long-term marriage, a stay at home parent who's now back to work, a parent who travels a lot, two kids in school, and a disagreement about whether 50 50 custody.

Julie's not seen the case file, this fake one. She has no notes. So she's hearing it all for the first time, just like you are. So for the first episode I'm going to introduce you to the parents, introduce you to the kids, walk through the current custody arrangement, and explain what each side is asking the court to do.

Julie's gonna give us her initial impressions, point out the legal issues, but she's not gonna make a final decision until episode three. Again, this is fiction. This is Chachi PTs little. Manifestation of what a a typical court case would be.

The case is called Holloway versus Holloway. . And this is Pennsylvania style according to ai. We're looking for that like best interest of the child standard that Pennsylvania does.

So here's the parents. Lauren [00:01:00] Holloway is 37. She was a stay at home parent for about nine years. Before that, she'd worked as a dental assistant. When her oldest Mia was born, Lauren and her husband agreed that she would step back from full-time work and focus on the kids and the household. For most of the marriage, that's what she did.

She did school drop offs and pickups, pediatrician appointments, therapy appointments, sports, homework, all of it. The family lived in a single family home in a neighborhood we'll call Maple Ridge in a school district with a solid reputation, but not the best in the state. But it was a good school district.

Then we have dad, that's Evan Holloway. He's 40. He works as a regional construction project manager. His job involves overseeing multiple sites in different cities, so he is early mornings, lots of driving, sometimes staying overnight, near a job site. During the marriage, Evan's job was the primary source of income.

Lauren wasn't earning or earned very little in the years that she did some part-time work. They've been married for 12 years. About 18 months ago, they separated. There was no single explosive event, but the marriage had been struggling for a while. Stress about money, resentment about who did what with the kids and the fact that Evan was gone a lot after the [00:02:00] separation.

Lauren stayed in the marital home in the Maple Ridge school district. Evan moved about 42 minutes away to a rental townhouse in a different district. About six months after the separation, Lauren started working part-time again. She's now a dental office administrator working roughly 9:00 AM to 2:00 PM four days a week.

Evan remained in his same job though. He says he's made some changes to his schedule.

So from that high level background, long-term marriage, one parent stayed home, one's primary earner, now they're separated.

Is there anything jumping out to you yet?

emily: A couple things. I'll just say what goes into my head, it's like the stream of consciousness. Not that this matters, but it really isn't a long-term marriage. 12 years is not long-term. I would say that's moderate term. Not that really matters for custody, to be honest.

'cause you don't have to be married and we're only talking about custody. You said she stayed home for nine years and worked part-time? The first thing that comes to mind is that a lot of those years, the kids were not in school. Now the kids are in school. One of the things that the courts have to consider when they're doing a custody decision is not who did the things, but who is able and willing.

So just because she did the pediatrician appointment and all that stuff, that doesn't mean that she gets a quote unquote leg up. The issue [00:03:00] really comes down to, is Evan able to and willing to do it? And is he capable? And from everything you said, the answer to all of those is likely yes.

The other thing that comes to mind is when you said that dad said. Hours can change.

Does he have a person to testify to that? Has he actually done it? Meaning when people come in and say I can change my schedule, then my answer is why haven't you done it yet? Or have you you said. Mom's still in the marital residence. Is that final meaning? Is she staying there? And dad's in a rental in a different school district. And because they're seven in 10, I presume they're already enrolled in school through moms, which is important.

But also, how far away are they? Are they close? Is it drivable?

julie: said 42 minutes.

emily: That's definitely on the outer edge of what I think would be a 50 50, but it's a rental. So just thinking out loud, if I'm representing dad, I'm saying get yourself in a more permanent location, much closer.

Generally speaking, if I'm going to court for the person seeking 50 50, I wanna see around 30 minutes or less. 42 because you think about traffic 'cause you can't control that. And I always think about, these kids are in elementary school, so they have a later start, [00:04:00] but they're gonna eventually be in el middle and high school and, high school kids.

Are usually starting school by seven 30. So when you're starting school at seven 30, you gotta be there at seven 15. You're 42 minutes, now you're leaving at six 30, , kids this age need sleep. Not that's what the court's gonna think, but that's what I'm thinking

The court is gonna consider distance. They have to,

julie: Let's talk about the children. So there's two children, Mia's 10, she's in fifth grade. She's described as a good student, mostly A's and B's.

And she plays on a travel soccer team that has practices twice a week and games sometimes out of town on weekends. Personality wise, Mia tends to be anxious. She worries about being late. She doesn't like surprises. When the parents first separated, she had some trouble sleeping, more nightmares, more difficulty settling down.

At night, she's seen a therapist sporadically, mainly for anxiety and to help her cope with family changes. And then there's Noah. He's seven. He's in first grade. He's been diagnosed with a DHD and has an IEP, which is an individualized education program in Pennsylvania. His IEP. Addresses focus transitions between activities and some behavioral support.

He's described as funny, energetic, and very attached to [00:05:00] routines. When the schedule changes unexpectedly, he has meltdowns. Transition days going from one parent's home to the other are usually harder for him. So in summary, their school aged kids, one has diagnosed special needs and both have some extra sensitivity around transitions and change.

emily: Is Noah medicated or does it not say?

julie: It doesn't say, it just says he has the IEP at school.

emily: So I'll say a couple things that just come into mind. Not to dismiss anxiety because that is a significant issue, but if every case was hinged on a kid having anxiety. That wouldn't really help us because frankly, in this generation, every kid's 

julie: anxious.

emily: And we have to also balance when kids have anxiety, you have to balance that with, they also have to be a part of what I would say is the real world, which is things change and there's not always gonna be predictability. So that's just the first thing.

But, anxiety is an issue and especially for kids who like routine. And I guess the other question is, do both parents agree to that characterization? Oftentimes one parent usually it's the parent who wants primary will come in and say they can't handle the change.

They can't handle the transition. And the other parent will be like, they're fine. They're fine when they come to me. 

julie: So how in that case, do you get what the real [00:06:00] story is?

emily: One of the things that I'm sure we'll get to is are the kids gonna talk? Are the kids gonna testify? And keep in mind when kids testify, they don't sit in the courtroom and sit on the witness stand and have to pick between their parents.

It's what, and I think we've discussed it, but it bears repeating, it's it done in camera, meaning in chambers. 9 99 0.9% of the time that the lawyers are not in there, the judge is in there, takes off their robe. And I think there might actually now be I think the judges can say, I think, I don't know that lawyers aren't coming back.

It used to be that we had to waive it and every time most lawyers will waive it if the other one does, because you want the kids to speak freely. So the judge will take the kids back. Sometimes they take 'em together, sometimes they take 'em separate and they will be a court reporter, but the court reporter sits behind them.

So even though they know they're there, it's a little less intimidating. , Because one of the things that the court has to consider is the preference of the child children based on their age and maturity. 10 and seven is very young. I would not think a judge would give a ton of weight to their preference.

It depends a little bit on what they say. But I think. Unfortunately, or fortunately, I guess it depends on how you look at it. [00:07:00] Courts are not overly swayed about kids who don't want change. And I mean that okay, guess what? It is what it is and you're gonna have to go with it. Because if we tiptoed around every issue, then you'd never make progress.

It doesn't mean I always agree with that for what it's worth, but that's where we are. So that's just the kind of things that come to my mind. And it sounds like from what you're telling me, dad's gonna need a little bit more flexibility, where the mom was gonna want more rigidity and there's always ways to come up with ideas.

I already have a couple, but I'll let you keep going.

julie: We're gonna go into what the current custody order is. Okay. What they're up to. Now,

They've been separated for 18 months. The Holloways entered into a temporary custody order. ,

emily: a court order. . Whether or not it was an agreed upon or not, I guess it doesn't really matter 'cause that's what they're doing. .

julie: So under that order, Lauren has primary physical custody. The children live with her during the school week. Evan has the children every other weekend from Friday after school until Sunday evening.

Plus one midweek dinner visit on his off weeks, that's usually a Wednesday from after school until 8:00 PM They have shared legal custody, meaning they're supposed to share major decisions about school, medical care, and religion. At the time that order was entered, [00:08:00] everyone understood that Evan's job involved travel on paper.

He said he'd do his best to schedule his travel around his custody time in practice, it hasn't always worked out that way. There have been several occasions where he was supposed to have the kids for a weekend, a project run late, or travel got extended, and he either cut. Time shorter asked Lauren to swap weekends.

The midweek dinner visit has also had some inconsistency. There are text messages where he cancels or reschedules because of work. Traffic are being too exhausted after a late night. On the other hand, Lauren has occasionally texted that the kids are too sick or too overwhelmed with homework for the midweek visit, and is asked to skip or shorten visits.

So we have a pattern where the temporary order exists, but in real life, the schedule's getting bumped and shifted more than either parent would probably like to admit.

emily: So right there starting backwards, the kids are already going with it, so they're gonna be fine with whatever happens, like that's just part of life.

Couple things pop into my mind, which is, that is a very antiquated custody order. Meaning it is almost never, ever.

julie: ever

emily: Ordered with normal quote unquote, no one's normal, but typical parents for an every other weekend and a dinner visit that is very restrictive for this case.

So I'll go [00:09:00] back to that in a second. Legal custody, just so everybody knows, is almost always shared the best way to describe it, and it's not just me, this is a, the administrative judge who has said this, maybe she didn't say it exactly like this, but the gist is you gotta be an ax murderer, right?

To lose legal custody. It is a very hard thing to lose. It takes a lot because it's your basic fundamental right to make decisions about your kids. I think if I were representing either of them, I would say, you should expect that not only are the weekends gonna now go to Monday, presuming dad can get them to school.

So now the time hasn't been extended, but as well as the midweek visit because when you made a comment like, dad's too tired, what comes to mind is yeah, we're all tired when we get home, but ultimately it seems silly to go. Not that he doesn't wanna see his kids, but the effort, if you will, to then return them at eight.

Not to say that he doesn't wanna see them, but it does make an impracticality at some times. So without a doubt. Unless I hear about some hairy eyeball type of situation, to me that will be a change. So

julie: rather than having them every other week midweek, they had the extra night Sunday night,

emily: I would have both.

So like you said, it was Tuesday to Wednesday, is that what [00:10:00] it was? Something like that, whatever. So if I off the bat, I would say to my client, no matter what side you should expect, every other weekend, Friday to Monday, and I'll go back to that in a second and a. One overnight every week.

You get your kids at four or five after school. These kids are old enough. They can stay at dad's and dad can get them to school. And I get the change in schedule could be an issue, but to some extent it also makes it easier for the kids and the dad to be able to do things.

That also leads me to Sunday. I always explain, and it's one of those things that I feel like I. Correct on, and the courts agree with me, but sometimes I find other attorneys being unnecessarily difficult. Everybody deserves a full weekend. Like last night we were watching the Sixers game and the Sixers game started at seven 30.

And if Noah's into basketball, I use my son, he loves Tyrese Maxey, we watch basketball together. Like why should he have to get up

julie: and by that age, one of their weekend days is at a birthday party or they're doing

emily: Or you wanna go to the beach for the weekend and you wanna do things. And that's something that's important people need to remember is that if it's on your custody time, you can do what you want.

It's not vacation. So if mom or dad doesn't matter, wants to say, Hey, we're gonna go to the beach from Friday to Monday, then they don't have to [00:11:00] take a vacation time. They should be able to do that because there is a lot of time off from school throughout the year and the summer. So off the bat, I think that's a very restrictive custody.

Schedule. And I think mom has to get in her head that's not gonna happen and gonna continue and dad shouldn't at least have some faith or relief or whatever. 'cause it sounds like he wants more time that he should be able to at least get some more time, but not necessarily what he's looking for.

I haven't heard enough to tell me what I would do yet.

julie: So this is what brought the case to trial and this is what they're looking for. All right, so they've been living under the temporary order for about a year, and then Evan filed a petition to modify custody. He's asking the court to change the schedule to a true 50 50 physical custody arrangement.

In his petition, he says he has reorganized his work schedule so he can be home more. He wants to be an equal parent, not a visitor, and he believes that a 50 50 schedule is in the children's best interests. He proposes a week on week off schedule with exchanges on Sunday evenings, and both parents continuing to share legal custody.

One wrinkle. Although Evan says he's adjusted his travel, he still lives 42 minutes away from the kids' school. Under his [00:12:00] proposal, the kids would be commuting from his house to their current school, at least for now. On the other side, Lauren has responded that she opposes 50 50 physical custody. She's asking the court to keep her as primary physical custodian with some possible adjustments to give Evan more time, like maybe one midweek overnight instead of just a dinner.

In her response, she says, the children are settled in the Maple Ridge Home and School district. They are already struggle when schedule changes. Evan's work still requires frequent travel, and she's concerned that if he had 50 50 custody, he would rely heavily on his parents and his new girlfriend to do the actual day-to-day parenting.

She also raises Noah's IEP and me as anxiety, as reasons to minimize transitions and keep the children in a schedule that they know. So we have a father framing this as equality and involvement, a mother framing this as stability and realistic availability.

emily: All right, there's a lot there.

So first of all, not that this matters 'cause this is what AI is great until it's not. This is where like my lawyer and me twitches, when it's a temporary custody order, then they would just be listed for trial.

At least in Chester County, you don't modify temporary custody orders. Not that matters, but I will say the custody orders are always modifiable. So even when you have a [00:13:00] final custody order, it is not final and that you can modify. So

julie: this more realistic that it's a final that they're

emily: Correct. Or in Chester County, they went to their conciliation conference. They didn't agree. So now they're on the trial list. Either way. The point is they don't agree, it doesn't matter they're going to trial. I'll, a couple of things that popped into my head. Number one is dad's not trying to get them outta their school district or outta their community.

I didn't hear that. He's trying to move schools. He's not trying to move me. A soccer team. That is a stability factor that doesn't have an issue. Having family be able to help is actually a positive. So grandparents helping is actually a good thing. It's not a bad thing. It's not held against anybody.

People need childcare and it is never gonna be used against somebody if they need childcare. Excessive. I can see where you can make an argument. That's where you also have the right of first refusal for overnight care with people like dad. If he's traveling, he has the obligation to say, Hey, I'm traveling overnight.

And if mom can't accommodate, then grandparents or girlfriend could girlfriend doesn't always mean that's bad. A couple of things. How long have they been together? Do they live together? What have you? If girlfriend is quote unquote a good girlfriend, meaning she knows her place, she's not overtaking, usurping her role [00:14:00] or mom's role and she's just doing what a lot of really good stepmom's and girlfriends do, which is just be that bonus, I think that's gonna be.

A good thing. It's not bad to need help. And if I was cross-examining mom, just popping into my head, if she's gonna say he's gonna use these people. How often are you using help to get me outta her soccer practice? How often are you using help in certain situations? Because every parent, at least that I know of, uses somebody to help them, whether it's a neighbor or whatever.

So that's the kind of stuff that goes into mind. Sounds like chat. Gpt slash mom recognizes he's gonna get more time. The transition. So it's funny 'cause she says the kids don't do well with transitions, but what dad's proposing is less transitions, which is actually what I was thinking at one point.

If I was gonna suggest 50 50, I can see this being a good option, meaning week on, week off. Although I think Sunday exchanges are probably not the best. I would, I generally would tell people to do Fridays. It's when their week is ending. They're going into a weekend, they can transition at the house.

They're new. Changed dad's house or mom's house for that weekend and then start the week fresh. So I would suggest Friday transitions after school. I think that would [00:15:00] minimize the time, week on, week off. So there's really, in my opinion, only two ways to do 50 50. That makes sense. It's the week on, week off or a 5 2, 2 5, which is where you have every other weekend.

And then one parent has every Monday, Tuesday, one parent has every Wednesday, Thursday, and then the weekends alternate. So then you get five days straight with one parent on either end. 

julie: For this age, is there one or the other

emily: Generally? I would say it's the five two. Two five. More often. I think less people do week on, week off, however. I've heard a lot of different opinions. I can't say what would be best yet for this family. My guess is mom would struggle the most because it sounds like mom defines herself very much as a mom, as opposed to recognizing that that it's not about her time, it's the kids' time with both of them.

So I think she would probably do better with what the 5 2, 2 5. I think it would really depend on the kids, to be honest. It's a long time to be away from either parent, to be honest.

julie: What do you think about how they're gonna get to school in the mornings if he has 'em for the full week?

emily: I think it's fine.

I've had cases where stepmom was doing the driving and, granted they were married, but the court was like, so [00:16:00] what? It's fine again. What are they getting on the bus? What does it matter if it's, Jenny, the girlfriend or the kids on the bus? Again, you rely on people all the time. I rely on people.

Every morning to alternate driving my kids to school. So I don't have an issue with that.

I do think it's helpful with week on, week off, to be honest, with people in his shoes to be able to schedule.

I've had plenty of clients, typically men who travel and they say it's easier to know I can go for five days straight and get that over with. I would probably expect him to argue on that end.

I would want him to have somebody testify from his work that says, we can make that accommodation.

Just him coming in and saying it, it doesn't gonna get him anywhere. Technically, it's hearsay. My work said, or my boss said, that's hearsay. But again, that also goes to the writer of First Refusal, right? So when you have a writer of First Refusal for overnight care, if he has to travel on his time, then he has to offer it to mom if it's overnight.

And she might be living her best life down in The Bahamas, I don't know. And then Dad has to figure it out. That would solve that problem.

Or it could solve that problem, I should say.

julie: Now we should talk about, the actual custody factors that you think are going on here that are gonna be weighed.

emily: Now in [00:17:00] Pennsylvania there's 11 factors, which one of the judges in our county goes, it's just the same 16 that are just consolidated.

I'm going through them in my head. I don't have 'em in front of me. Number one is there doesn't seem to be safety concerns, which is obviously the biggest focus. And the safety concerns are weighted. I would say. Exactly what the statute. Statute has.

A different verbiage, but more so there's no safety issues.

So a lot of times in custody cases, people think when they see the factors, I have to win this one. It's okay not to, sometimes cases boil down to just a few factors. Factors here are gonna be who's been the primary parent and the ability. To do the roles, the stability factor.

The distance between the parties is another one. The work schedule. Now in Pennsylvania, you do have to consider the work schedule when you're looking at it. The ability for the grandparents and or girlfriend, that factor is the ability to find childcare or to have family involvement.

The kids special needs, as you indicated, although they don't seem to be anything that would really make or break a custody case, I haven't heard yet, but both parents can help the kids with homework. It doesn't sound like any parent is, inept in that way.

There's no drug and alcohol issues. There's no mental health issues that I've heard of. One of [00:18:00] 'em is the ability for basically the parents too. Facilitate the relationship and it sounds like that's fine. Mom shouldn't be canceling dinner because the kids gotta go.

So there might be a little concern if I'm representing mom, that she's looking at the kids as hers and not his. And that's a big problem. That's a red flag that if your client, you come in and say I'll give him time. You're not the keeper of the time. Like he is the parent as much as you are.

I will say I'm sometimes exacerbated by how many times I have to nicely, and maybe not exactly say this, but you, this is their father. You picked them. That is who you have as their father. Stop. So I think she could have a little issue there, but it's not gonna weigh too significantly against her.

I think. It sounds again, a mom who's defined herself as a mom to stay at home and doesn't love that she now has to share. And it's not a judgment that I'm saying that, that's what I'm hearing. 

julie: In the next episode, we're gonna like actually go into the trial.

And so Julie will be there as Judge Julie and the Holloways will be bringing , their AI attorneys,

The AI attorneys with the AI holloways, and we'll see how they do. We can talk a little bit about if anyone else should be there.

[00:19:00] Testifying do we want the kids?

emily: So generally the courts don't want the kids 'cause you keep 'em out of it. So it could go either way.

And the other thing I would say is that.

If I'm representing dad, as I said, I'd want his one of his work people to testify, and if his girlfriend lives there, I definitely want her to testify. . One thing I don't want, if I'm Judge Julie, is I don't need people coming in and saying he or she is a good parent. That's presumed, honestly, doesn't say it in the statute or anywhere, but people are presumed to be a good parent.

julie: The mom's not saying he's like abusive or on drugs or anything like

emily: that. And it sounds like they can basically communicate and all those things. So I don't want to hear from neighbor who says, mom's been doing all the things. No one disputes that she's been doing all the things.

I would really think for dad, if the girlfriend lives there and the boss, that's the only people that pop into mind. And then the kids perhaps, but that depends on. What Chad g Bt decides,

It sounds like they're normal people. Yeah.

julie: I guess we'll find out in the

emily: We'll find out. And I think like it's actually harder if they're normal. So I would imagine if we're gonna make this a hard one they should be normal. 

julie: Where it's almost like

I could see it going in 

More detail on the IEP [00:20:00] and mia's anxiety. How often are there meetings? Who attends? Who follows up with school? Has dad ever gone? Is he familiar with the IEP goals?

emily: That goes into the primary care and that I did think, does Dad go to the IEP On the flip side?

I'm not really sure if that's gonna be a make or break because the IEP is for school and if he's not supportive of the issues, I was thinking of a 5 0 4 where the kid is given more time to take a test. So if he was like that. Meia doesn't need more time. That's ridiculous. That would be something I'd wanna know. But good students, that can go both ways. On mom's side, she could say they're stable, so they shouldn't change 'cause they're doing really well in school.

And on the other side, dad should say they're stable and they're doing so they can adjust. So I think ultimately the school thing seemed like a neutral to me. And again, he wasn't trying to change schools from that fact pattern. 

julie: Do you usually hear from anyone at school or 

emily: that No, usually not.

And frankly, whenever you do try to subpoena someone from a school, depending on the issue, you will get something from the solicitor to try to quash the subpoena. The only time I didn't have that issue is on a school choice issue where I needed a principal to testify just basically [00:21:00] about the resources at the school.

julie: So not about the kid?

emily: Correct. Because they wanna keep.

You call the guidance counselor and now the kid knows, the guidance counselor came and testified, and now you can't talk to the guidance counselor.

That's the same reason why you should never ever try to bring your kid's therapist in, because the kid's therapist is for the kid, right?

So whatever the kid tells the therapist should remain with a therapist, that would be absolutely a terrible idea for your kid. And again, it's about the kid, not about you.

julie: So you would handle this by asking the mom and dad questions about the IEP and do you agree? 

emily: Most of the time it doesn't come up.

Honestly I mean it comes up I forget if it was Noah. Noah has an IEP, he has a DH, ADHD and both parents are supportive of the management, the treatment. Like then it's a non-issue

why I asked about medication.

If mom's saying I wanna medicated and dad's saying no and why not? Those things they absolutely would matter. And is it recommended? If it's not anything they're disputing and it's something that's going fine, I would consider that a neutral. Because it's not an issue that one parent is potentially managing better or differently.

So medication management is a good example. If doctors recommend medication and another parent is not, usually it's because they quote unquote, think they know [00:22:00] more. The courts are generally gonna say follow the doctor's orders.

So that would be something, although I don't think that would really affect me too much on physical custody, maybe. I don't know. It depend on what the testimony 

julie: was. Yeah. 

emily: But from what you read, it didn't seem like that was a giant issue.

These people, as you said from the beginning, quietly dissolved in their marriage.

It wasn't any blow up. So I would say at that point, that's usually a good time to go to counseling, to figure out how to, I'll use a Gwen and. What's his name? Chris Martin. Consciously uncoupled because it's better for the kids. So what always comes to mind is, regardless , the courts are generally gonna have parents do some co-parent counseling so that they can be on the same page.

Because even in an intact household, kids will try to get something from one parent from the other and they're on the same house. So it's exacerbated when you have two separate households. And keep in mind, Mia could be coming home to mom and saying, i'm so anxious, et cetera, et cetera.

And honestly, Mia might be saying that 'cause she's worried about mom. She's worried that mom's sad and mom. And my and the kids know. Kids know people are like, oh, they have no idea. They don't know I'm upset. Bullshit. They know you're upset and they know that. Kids. Often will say things to one parent that they don't say [00:23:00] to the other because they feel bad. They're in the middle, they feel bad, they're leaving mom. And in this situation, my guess is they look at mom as the, I don't wanna say weaker is a terrible word, but the one that's not able to handle it as

well. 

julie: sensitive about the, yeah, about

emily: And their head, they're going, dad's fine. I don't need to worry about dad, I have to worry about mom.

And so way that kids worry about mom is saying, I wanna be with her more. ' cause they feel like that's their 

responsibility, 

julie: It makes her feel more loved. 

emily: What mom needs to say is, I'm fine. You go have a great time with dad and I can't wait to see you when you get back and mean it, frankly, so much of custody and custody going well for kids is , you gotta be an Oscar winner. You gotta make it about them, not you. And if you are sad that they're gone, that's fine. I remember.

For what it's worth, when I was, I think I was probably 12 and my mom had a significant other so my parents got divorced then there was we'll call him Mark one before Mark two. And they had recently broken up and I think she hadn't met. Mark two yet who's now my dad. But I remember saying to my mom I don't wanna go out.

I don't wanna leave you. I don't want you to be lonely. I don't want, and she was like, nicely go. And now as a parent, I'm [00:24:00] like, she was probably like, get the fuck out. I need some space. But I remember feeling that was my responsibility.

Like I felt bad that she was alone. I don't think that she ever. Made me feel that way. I think that's what I took on myself. So if I took that on, just watching, but if I had a mom who was going, I'm so sad when you're gone, I

julie: in with me and 

emily: watch movie. Right? 

julie: I'm

emily: You're purifying your kid when you're doing that. The best thing my mom did was go. Go get out.

I remember that very clearly. My kids do it now, they're like, oh, I don't wanna leave you if they're all going somewhere. I'm like, I'm fine. Trust me. Get out. And I'm in a happy household. But the point is more like they really want us to feel safe as much as we want them to feel safe.

And so when you put your kids in this situation, in that you're telling them like. Oh, I'll miss you. It's not that you can't say you miss them, but you can't say you miss them with the implication that it's their fault and that you're, that it's, they should try to fix it. It should be have so much fun.

You guys are gonna have a great time. I'm gonna have fun too. I'm gonna go out with my friends. It doesn't mean I won't miss you and I'll call you and I'll FaceTime you, but I'm gonna be fine. I'm gonna do all these things and then when you come [00:25:00] back, we're gonna have a great time and we're gonna do these things, whatever it is.

But you gotta tell your kids you're fine. Even if you're not, you gotta fucking fake it till you make it, because otherwise you're putting your kids in the middle.

julie: Yeah. It'll be interesting how, what they think Mia and Noah are picking up from them. Yeah, I guess we'll find that out. All right. Who, I don't know.

I didn't read the, I didn't read the trials transcript yet, so I'm not sure.

emily: All right. We will meet again maybe this week

julie: We'll meet again soon, so stay tuned. Make sure you subscribe so you don't miss the follow up. And then the dramatic conclusion of what the custody agreement ends up being 

emily: we should put this in the universe. I feel like, judge Judy was the.

Courtroom of other issues. But I feel like

julie: cri like little 

emily: criminal

Yeah. Or like civil stuff and nonsense, but I feel like we should have the Judge Julia Family Court and have all of, I just need to find producers.

julie: Yeah. And people that are willing to go on.

emily: Oh my god. People would be willing to

julie: on. You think

emily: Oh my God, are you really? Are you know? Have you seen social media? They always want I,

julie: want, I don't know. Come to the initial consult.

emily: I know I have to do that. That has been a year and we are behind by a year, but it's on my mind. 2026 is the

julie: we'll do some initial consult stuff.

That'll [00:26:00] be our audition for Judge Julie. 

emily: All right. sounds 

julie: Alright. Bye. Bye.